Textbook Group meeting for Parr, Pezzulo, Friston 2022 .

okay it's cohort four and July 25th and we're the second discussion of chapter three so before we look at the questions is there anything that like anyone just wants to start anything about the reading or anything even maybe some recent uh live stream or or course or anything or just what their reading is like now of chapter three yeah go for it so I I was thinking about this idea of synchronization between the inner model and the outer model which another term for that could be adaptation to the environment active adaptation modifying the environment and building a model of the environment but Bronwyn mentioned personality disorders and one of the uh features there these are very fuzzy Constructors being stuck in maladaptive patterns that don't really fit the environment and person is unable to change them thus their energies uh they swim in free energy so to speak and they suffer and there's negative effect that is present all the time I I do think that these models are a little too straight and narrow to account for Psychopathology and I do think trying to explain something like that with sort of a a need formula is is just not ready yet I mean I I think that these are not doing it justice because you know uh people exist who spend decades in maladaptive behavior and they don't uh do much about it to get better so I I just find it that you know when when we dictated and say this is the law this is the first principle and this is how the living thing does it bacteria perhaps but in a person with like malignant narcissism no they don't yeah it's a really good uh question like what is the role of the math in the science what's the role of the science quote science what's the role of the math in the science how just broadly extrapolative is it in its interpretation um and then what's the role of just any any how is how is a math and science mobilized with personality what does a principle matter in the specific what does a specific matter for a principal those are all huge questions I think you'd be interested in a cybernetic Big Five Theory they have a few papers where they connected to free energy principle to try to go at different psychopathologies and try to see how you can like think of in a cybernetic perspective it might be something you might be interested in I'm familiar with the big five Theory it's also statistics based I'm a clinical psychologist and I think it's uh has nothing to do with personality disorders I think it's again trying to uh uh quantize but but still you know we're going for mathematics trying to Define I mean it would be good to to bring somebody in the room who has a borderline personality disorder and try to apply that theory onto them they're predictably unpredictable there's something missing like I don't know field Theory or Chaos Theory framework it's just it it it uh it doesn't match my empirical data of interacting with his patients on a daily basis you know and it doesn't come from papers it comes from seeing what they do in life over and over and over again it doesn't work they still do it so uh yeah one way I I I might kind of ask this would be the personality traits are more about the um characteristics of the paths in a cognitive model so it's like certain type of Dynamics in the map not the territory then in the you know maybe a clinical setting first off it's engagement directly rather than engagement with the model and also there's perhaps less of a focus on just like um in the in the short term about just um population scale patterns and maybe more emphasis on a person's action patterns and so then how can these two sides kind of support each other in an applied cognitive science rather than like disengaging [Music] characteristics and uh cbtf cbft uh and cybernetic Big Five Theory as like another layered uh outside of just traits what was the name of the thing outside of traits uh characteristic adaptations oh yeah also anyone of course can always be just clicking on the cursor…